Talking Movies with Spling: Angelique Pretorius on ‘Mind Thief’

In this interview, Spling chats with the incredible Angelique Pretorius about her experiences crafting this mind-bending thriller. They explore insights into the film’s unique concept, the complexities of their characters, and the collaborative process that made Mind Thief (review) a reality.

Hi, I’m Spling, and we are about to delve into the intricate world of Mind Thief. I’m joined by producer, co-writer, and lead actress, Angelique Pretorius.

Hi.

Angelique, thank you for joining me. It’s so wonderful to have you in this interview, and we are going to be talking about all the ins and outs of the twisty film Mind Thief.

Where did you come up with this concept? Because I just found it so fascinating and so upbeat and interesting and quirky and fun and enjoyable.

Thank you so much. Essentially, the foundation of the film was based on our available locations. So, my producing and writing partner, Matt Steinauer, happens to be — or used to be — my neighbour. And we knew that we had two apartments facing each other.

We’d watched Rear Window recently, Hitchcock’s brilliant piece. And we knew we could play around with something interesting to do with voyeurism. And then what the mystery behind all the sightings are. And then, of course, mind control. A very, very relevant topic right now… especially in the global climate currently.

The amount of truth versus fiction. The amount of misinformation. Catchy headlines that people don’t bother to look into beyond what they seem to present. I think it’s a very, very topical issue. Mind control on whatever level. Whether it be propaganda or, in this case, a more literal expression of it in more of a microcosmic setting.

People feeding you what you need to believe rather than… Yeah, I’m totally getting that. And you mentioned Hitchcock’s Rear Window. What other film references? I feel like there are quite a few easter eggs or whatever they call them.

Yeah, so, exactly. Well, the Hitchcock style we tried to — at least Matt who directed it — tried to emulate with the kind of lens choices, more of a classical approach to filming. And then the… What did you call them? Easter eggs?

Yeah.

Little things like, at one point my friend and publisher says to me, ‘You’re Tyler Durden’. And then I go ‘I don’t want to be Tyler Durden’. Who of course is the lead in Fight Club. And that’s relevant because my character is living this whole other secret life that she discovers along the way.

And then another fun reference that I don’t think many people would probably pick up. There is a reference to, in one of the last scenes on the computer screen, you get these computer programmes. And it’s called Falcon’s Puzzle and Lana’s Maze, which of course refers to Falcon’s Maze from War Games, which is also very topically linked to this film.

Matt being a big cinephile, yes, a lover of film, I think we’ve always tried topay homage to our favourite films in our work.

Matt being a big cinephile, yes, a lover of film, I think we’ve always tried to pay homage to our favourite films in our work.

Speaking of Matt, what was it like co-writing the screenplay?

It was brilliant. You know, it was my first time around doing it. I never really thought I would venture into writing. And I’ve had the biggest blast. We have a kind of arrangement, just organically, that happened whereby whoever has the idea and wants to develop the story gets to write the screenplay.

But the other person develops the story with them and is at their beck and call to discuss any single aspect of the story at any single phase. And, of course, we read each other’s work and we basically get to co-live in that imaginary world together, which is really, really fun.

So in this case, since it is quite an intricate story with lots of plot twists and so on, it was a great exercise of balancing the kind of structural aspects with the creative spontaneous aspects. So a very good left and right kind of brain exercise. It was great fun. And I’m so grateful that he had introduced me to…just the world of filmmaking. It’s been a real joy.

And did you write it knowing that you were going to be playing the lead role?

Absolutely.

And what was it like doing that? Because you are sort of almost crafting a film that’s going to play to your strengths, but it’s also a film that’s going to push you. And you are the curator of all that suddenly. So were there any things that you were like saying, “no, not that”, you know?

When Matt said, okay, so we need to get you by the pool in a bikini, I was like, okay… No, I mean, honestly, it was always a matter of servicing the story. So whatever the story needed, I would have been more than happy to do.

And I’ve done a lot of acting before, so I know that my toolbox of, you know, emotional tools are quite well practised and available for whatever’s required. So it was really more about finding an interesting lead character that could go on this interesting journey.

I mean, I did mention to him that maybe she could be into yoga and that could be part of her kind of morning routine as she uncovers what’s really going on as far as… I won’t give away too much… but as far as this other life that she’s living. And then we figured why not just get a trapeze yoga mat that I swing from and that ended up being great fun. I didn’t anticipate, I’ll tell you more about that another time, but it was a little bit challenging to be upside down.

I ended up getting headaches and having bloodshot eyes and the opening of the film, which Matt pictured me being upside down as Robert De Niro is in Cape Fear, where he’s delivering this whole monologue upside down and he looks perfectly normal.

We tried that with me. I looked like a chipmunk that had just taken a shot of, I don’t know, eye-popping drugs or something, and we very quickly cut that shot from the movie. So, yes, I just went with it, I guess, and learned what I could and couldn’t do along the way in that sense.

Yeah. I mean, I was kind of asked how many takes it took to get that right in the beginning because it actually is an impressive feat.

Thank you. You know, it’s funny. I do headstands and that kind of thing when I do yoga, and I thought, oh, that’ll be a piece of pie. And it ended up being very challenging because you’re upside down for so many minutes at a time and then you’re up again and you’re down again and you’re up again and you’re down again, and you don’t have that kind of natural decompression of, I guess, the blood moving back to the rest of the body. So it was probably too many takes for my liking, but at one point I said to them, we’ve got to get this now. So, yeah, it was fun.

And, I mean, you started as an actor and you’ve moved into the space of producing and writing and directing now, so you’ve got a really versatile array of experience across the board now in so many different productions. And my question is really about the whole process of taking this film from conception to final cut and I understand it was self-funded. Is that correct?

Yes.

What was it like? What were some of the challenges of actually taking this product from inception to the screen?

Well, it was really a first-time around for me. So, I mean, I didn’t honestly fully understand — as many productions as I’ve been in. I’ve only ever been in front of the camera and then got spoiled with seeing the final product.

And for the first time, I got to really go through the process of finding a great team, finding a cast that can really capture every character beautifully. And I’m so happy with who we ended up with. And then, obviously, the producing was a means to an end for me.

I can’t say I absolutely loved that, but it was also because it was so new. We dealt with the Actors Union in America, SAG — Screen Actors Guild — and just so much new stuff, you know, insurance and this and that. And then, of course, the shooting was challenging for me personally because I was having to wear the different hats and, you know, one minute be checking that crafty and everything is in order and then the next minute cry.

And thank goodness for my experience as an actress. I think if it was one of my first times acting, I would not have been able to do it or it would have been very stressful. But it was almost like therapy for me to slip into character and just perform and then carry on with whatever the next kind of catastrophe was on set.

No, it wasn’t that bad, but that was definitely a big challenge for me. And then it was a real fun experience to see the rest of the post-production process fall into place and how much, gosh, sound… you know, you’re talking foley, that is, you know, your sounds of putting a glass down or footsteps or something, to the score, to ADR, and how those things elevate the product. And I think I prematurely sometimes panicked about certain things not being quite right, and then I realised, oh, no, no, that gets fixed in post.

And obviously you can’t fix everything in post, but it was a beautiful unfolding of the process for me to see how a film can get just more and more layers and improve with, like I say, every round. And, I mean, you have so many wonderfully talented people bringing their value to the production. I think the amazing takeaway for me was I gained so much appreciation for how much of a team effort it is and how every single person is so valuable.

And I think, honestly, every crew member and actor and producer and writer would benefit from doing everyone else’s job for at least a day to experience what they go through and also what value they bring, because it’s magnificent.

I also want to mention one other challenge that we had, which was that we started filming pre-COVID and then had to take a break for six months and then continued on. So one of the unforeseen challenges that popped up were that our actors didn’t exactly look the way they looked before and after the six months.

People were, you know, picking up weight, growing a beard, getting a tan in the sun. And thankfully I think it all came together seamlessly and no one will probably ever know. But that was a small little challenge that we hadn’t foreseen, maybe unusual challenge.

Yeah, what you’re saying about sound is so true because it really creates this lush environment for an immersive environment for film. And I watched a documentary where it basically said there are about eight layers to the soundtrack and people don’t realise that as audiences just how important it is.

I watched a student feature film the other day and there was an issue with the sound and the punches were not landing. So the scuffles were just these awkward sort of moments where they didn’t have people ripping material or whatever to create the punch sounds, which is what they do. And also it was a thriller, but it came across like a comedy because now you didn’t have that suspense and intensity to the whole thing. That leads me on to a question I wanted to ask you.

In terms of the film psychological thriller, there’s a little bit of, I would say, romantic comedy in there. I mean it’s a very eclectic kind of genre film and I’m sure that must have created a little bit of trouble with the elevator pitch where you’re trying to explain exactly what it is to someone because it’s not like anything else out there. It’s kind of like a detective story, but it’s quirky and fun and enjoyable and light and then dark at the same time. And yeah, it’s amazing. So what is the elevator pitch, would you say, and how would you describe this genre mix?

I just quickly want to circle back to what you said about sound and just mention that I recently got to meet the director, Donald Petrie, who directed Mystic Pizza and Miss Congeniality and so on, and he said he tells his students — I think he teaches part-time — how do you know that a film is professional or not? And he said ‘sound’. So absolutely, I echo that a thousand percent.

And then in terms of the genres, absolutely. It was quite a hodgepodge of different genres. I think it’s so important in this day and age where there’s so much rehashing of old stuff and a lot of movies are very formulaic to combine genres and subvert them and surprise audiences.

Like I thoroughly, for example, enjoyed Barbarian and how halfway through it becomes a comedy. And the comedy and the horror work so beautifully together and you think you’re watching a different film. And some people didn’t like that, but I absolutely adored that. And I’ll add to the mix, we also had a bit of sci-fi mystery and, of course, like you mentioned, dark comedy and thriller.

And yes, absolutely, the elevator pitch sounds very clumsy and very unelegant and not your typical Hollywood ‘wrap it up in a bow’, where say it’s a combo of this and that (movie) and have a neat little log line. It’s more complex, but when you watch it, you see that it does actually work and those genres blend quite well together. But thankfully, since it was self-funded, we didn’t need to do elevator pitches.

Although with the selling of it, of course, then we are again challenged or not challenged… I think the right kind of person, audience and buyer kind of needs to be able to appreciate this type of film.

You know, what came to mind as we were speaking about this is the film Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang with Robert Downey Jr., which has got that detective element, but then it’s cheeky and it’s funny and it’s a little bit silly and it’s very playful. I think that kind of tonally is kind of similar, but then yours has got the sci-fi and then the mind control thing.

Yeah, it’s just such a fun film. I’m sure you must have enjoyed working on it. And your performance is just such an all-round performance. You really kind of, I don’t know if you want to tell us a little bit about whether you kind of wrote a backstory for Christine. You know, as the co-writer of the film, I don’t know if you had these extra special insights into playing the role, but maybe you can just tell us a little bit about playing the role of Christine and how you prepared for it.

I think it was greatly beneficial to have been a part of the writing process when it came to acting because I really understood her motivations and her journey, so I think that was profoundly helpful.

As far as her backstory goes, I’ll be honest with you and I might disappoint the die-hard actors out there who are all about the backstory. I don’t necessarily go to the lengths of creating an elaborate backstory if I don’t see it reflecting directly in the present reality of the character. I would rather work backwards and say, for example, my character has this fierce determination and bravery when it comes to getting to the truth and the heart of the matter and does things that I would never in a million years do.

Now, where does that bravery come from? And there is a mention in the story — in the film — of her parents disappearing. So, of course, in that sense I had to kind of explore the meaning of that and the impact of that on her life. Why is she so driven to be a little detective, unappointed, unofficially, and where does she get her courage from?

And was it a sort of heavy kind of performance or that you sort of had to really uncloak at the end of the day, and do you feel like you’ve maybe still got a part of her with you? Is any of that happening?

That’s a great question. You know, I think it’s easy as an actor when you go very deep to struggle to debrief. I actually think it’s something that’s greatly under-serviced in our industry. That actors don’t usually have, or are given the tools to get back to themselves after they’ve immersed themselves in another character, especially if it’s dark material.

But I think through having so much experience, like I did this movie called Stilte where I had to go to some dark, deep places and the character had been hugely traumatised. And I remember finding myself more emotional than usual afterwards and taking a little moment to recalibrate myself.

But I think I at this point have such kind of well-practised muscles that I am able to, I don’t want to say approach it technically, but to some extent technically because I have to be able to snap out of it and get back to whatever’s required on set, especially in this case.

So it’s a matter of get into the zone pretty quickly, deliver what you need to, obviously feel the feelings and keep it as authentic as possible. But I just didn’t have the luxury of being silent in my trailer or whatever for an hour before the scene shoots to really get into the mindset. I just had to be on and off and on and off. And it was a great challenge, but it’s totally doable.
That’s the great thing that I realised.

Because you’re walking this as a character, you’re walking this line of vulnerability and manipulation with that whole mind control situation. But then it’s also a very physical kind of performance. I mean, you’re sort of running and then the opening scene. What was the most sort of demanding thing about this role?

Again, I would say keeping track of not just what was going on around the performance in terms of set, but actually keeping track of when, I don’t want to give away again too much, but when she’s in what state, when is she completely lucid, when is she under the influence?

And a lot of the other characters also would come to us and say, wait, wait, is my character…are they lucid now or not? And that was quite funny at times because we had to sometimes backtrack and kind of rework our story arcs to remember where we’re at. Physically, yes, I did have some (demands), I got to do a little bit of action, which was really fun.

I got to run. Matt taught me how to run properly because I think I never actually learned the proper gait. And I saw myself once in an Afrikaans series where I had to play this hardcore baddie and I had to run-

-Terrorist.

Yes, a terrorist, exactly. And suddenly I looked like a ballerina prancing along the floor and I thought, oh, that’s not going to work for this. So thankfully I got into my running mode.

It looked great.

Thank you so much.

Action hero moment.

And you know what’s surprisingly challenging is when they ask you to slow down because now the camera is not keeping up with you. So you actually have to go at half the speed, but look like you’re running your socks off. So it’s funny how technical it can actually get. Yeah. So it was really fun to do all that.

And I really enjoy the character, the actor and character of Walter. I’ve forgotten the actor’s name now.

Michael Tighe.

Michael Tighe. He’s phenomenal. He made me think of Robin Williams in this role. Maybe a little bit Fisher King kind of thing going on, but just such a charismatic and interesting bad guy. Yeah, he was amazing.

I agree. And, you know, movies are only as good as their baddie. So we were so lucky to find him. He had actually taken a kind of hiatus from acting. So he was fresh back on the scene. He had actually been in the Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

The first one (Pirates movie). He was phenomenal. I could see why they picked him. He had to play a British — you know, the guy in the cage who tries to get the key from the dog.

And then he happened to be available and interested in this role. And absolutely, his performance is so grounded and yet so layered. And what I particularly liked about it was, it was quite complex in that you felt his vulnerability… and also he’s in a wheelchair.

So of course there’s just that complexity that I thought made it way more interesting. And then of course at the end when there’s a major twist, you really feel for him. Yeah.

So Mind Thief explores themes of memory, deception and identity. And I wanted to find out from you how that changed your approach to taking on this role of Christine?

Yeah. Those themes were definitely at the foreground of this character. I would say probably what affected my performance the most was the deception because that’s a catalytic kind of thing that makes you want to take action and has a consequence.

So yes, my identity has affected my memory, but the fact that there’s an actual harm being done to me and I’m being, you know, framed essentially. That was, I think the thing that motivated her the most and in that way made me relate to that theme the best.

Yeah. It did make me think of Groundhog Day, that sort of rinse and repeat sort of like cycle.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, so much fun.

And, you know, what part of Mind Thief would you say, I mean, it just covers so many different bases. I wanted to find out from you, what are you most proud of from bringing this film to life?

Oh, I’m just so proud of us for creating a product that we ourselves enjoy watching. Every time I watch it, I don’t mean to…

And it’s very rewatchable. I need to tell you this. I’ve watched it at least, I think I’m on three now.

Oh, wow.

But it’s, it’s a film you can watch again and again and you pick up new little bits and pieces. Sorry to interrupt you.

Amazing. No, thank you for saying that. I still, yeah, I still enjoy watching it. You know, you, you appreciate different things every time you watch it, I think. And I’m literally just so proud of every single person who came to the party and gave so much to this production. You know, indie filmmaking, like we said earlier, it’s certainly not easy and you have to be resourceful and, um, dig deep, especially if it’s shot over a long period of time. But the fact that we, we pulled it off and, and created a

little movie that seemed to be well-received. We’ve done an extensive festival circuit and that we most importantly, that we ourselves enjoy.

And it’s won some awards. I understand for the screenplay and yourself as an actor.

Yes. Yes. Um, Thank you. It’s, it’s done pretty well and it’s just, it’s just such an absolute honour and joy to be able to share a creative piece with the world and to discover one’s own voice and filmmaking. I feel hugely, hugely blessed and so inspired by… the endless, honestly possibilities of what one can create. So that’s really what it opened my eyes to.

I think going into it, I was pretty trepidatious. Uh, it was also new and now I, I know that it’s possible. So it’s, and I think our tenacity honestly, through the whole process is what I’m very proud of.

It does have a lot of grit. And I think the… the casting worked so well and everyone’s bringing their all to the characters and it really just shines through… but I understand that you are also moving into the world of directing and have got a short film. Do you want to tell us about. Where that’s headed and what you’re up to.

Yes. Thanks for asking. Uh, I have directed. I’m still actually in the process of directing. So one day left on my first short film that I wrote and produced and acted in — whether that was wise or not, I’m not sure.

Look out Clint Eastwood.

And, uh, it was such a fulfilling experience to. In this case, see something that I wrote that came very much from my inner being come to life and to have a hand in the visual aspects, the music obviously, and yeah, just to give birth to something… so creative. Um, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I might use it as a pitching tool for a feature version of it, but currently it’s just
written to be a short film as a kind of dark comedy thriller, but there’s a lot of plot and, um, some twists too.

So I think hopefully it’ll be a fun reading into a certain sort of genre territory.

Absolutely. You know, I think something that Matt and I with Mind Thief tried to do was to never underestimate the audience. To give them a full experience, emotional and intellectual and of course, artistic, you know, visuals, sound.

And that’s what I’m I think now also hooked on is creating stories that perhaps surprise and challenge your audience along with being…

Delight

Yes, thank you. Along with giving them emotional satisfaction.

I think that’s one of the things that comes through so strongly with Mind Thief is that it’s a film that actually would be best served on the big screen. And it brings out just all the elements of the cinema going experience, the wow factor, the spectacle, the, the engagement, because it’s a very engaging film. I mean, it’s like a Rubik’s cube. You sort of trying to solve in your mind and then the popcorn factor, because it’s not taking itself so seriously that you can’t have a laugh here and there.

So it really is like one of these films that’s rewatchable. That is a bit like a film. My dad loves called Stake Out in terms of Richard Dreyfus and Emilio Estevez staking out this apartment. There’s fun. There’s, um, interest. There’s intrigue. There’s a high engagement and very high rewatchable sort of level to it. So really an all rounder-performance and an all-rounder film.

So yeah, that was very beautifully said and I very much appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Are you coming back to South Africa to make some films?

I hope so. I really do. I know a bunch of producers and have some relationships with networks and streamers and so on, and I would
absolutely love to come back here and make movies and TV series. But for the time being I’m just in the process of, well not just — it’s quite a lot of work and it’s challenging but again very fulfilling — writing a lot. So I’m on

my third screenplay, I’m currently working on an AI rom-com thriller that I think is very relevant, very timely, and I’m in the process of getting funding for that. And then I have some international movies that I have lined up to act in this year and coming years, but nothing in South Africa at the moment, but I’m definitely open to collaboration and would love to explore.

I’ll have to send you some scripts.

Thank you, thank you. And I mean South Africa just is so rich in resources when it comes to locations. I mean we have such variety as far as our nature goes, and then even, you know, Cape Town can kind of pass for Europe in some ways, and it’s really a fantastic, actually small country with a lot of variety.

We have mountains, sea, desert, you name it, and it can work for so many different locations, which is why, of course, the international production companies love it so much as well.

Yeah, I’d just say it’s like Miami and Camps Bay, it’s France and the Winelands, I mean, you know, it’s everything you need right here. Angelique, it’s been such a pleasure talking to you about the intricacies and I’ve really enjoyed hearing the insights about your performance in Mind Thief, but also all the sort of filmmaking challenges and growth opportunities that you’ve really taken with both hands.

Angelique, I’ve watched this film so many times, I know there are people that are dying to watch Mind Thief now as well, so tell us where can people watch it and also tell us where can they follow you and find out what you’re up to?

Well, currently Mind Thief is available internationally on Apple, Amazon, a few other platforms, unfortunately not yet in South Africa. We are in the process of selling it, but you will have to follow me to get the update on that. My Instagram handle is @AngeliquePretorius, would love to connect with you guys. Yeah, so that’s the status quo for now.

Awesome. And if you are looking for more reviews from Spling, check out ‘The Essence of Dreams’, an anthology of film reviews. That’s the book I’ve published recently and yeah, it’s just been such a pleasure chatting with you as it always is and I really wish you good luck with the directing career and all the upcoming exciting international projects with the acting. Thank you so much, it was so great.

Thank you so much for having me. Bye guys, thanks for watching.

This video podcast was filmed at Best Case Scenario Media studio in Muizenberg. A Best Case Scenario Media Production.